DONGARA CUP DAY!!

Bondyjnr · April 2014

Big day in my old home town is Easter saturday! Wish I was there! Have a great day @PuntingTragic and anyone else going

Here are my selections

Race 1 #4 Littlehorseparker #1 Free Geoffrey #2 Cadins Rock

Race 2 #7 Josie Makes Five #3 Rip The Lid Off #2 Vega Sky

Race 3 #4 Iconoclast #5 Never Been Worse #3 El Tegra

Race 4 #5 No More Idols #1 Manakaha #8 Key To Life

Race 5 #1 Escape Velocity #6 Grandstand #8 Dimitrius

Race 6 #5 Master Tenby #6 Outlier #3 Lord Elvstroem

SLIPPERGOLDEN · April 2014

On Sky 2

Bondyjnr · April 2014

Yeah mate its great for the little town!

Bfacey77 · April 2014

Free Geoffrey

Vega sky

Neverbeenworse

No more idols

Special ken

Master tenby

Quaddie

4-5

1-5

2-3-6

2-3-5

SLIPPERGOLDEN · April 2014

Grandstand & Bentonian quinella

Bondyjnr · April 2014

Lucy Warwick having a good day!

PuntingTragic · April 2014

Awesome day was fantastic crowd be close to 2500 they still have logistics issues
Girls rode 5-6 winners gun ride Lucy Warwick in the cup was on ritchtrams lass was jog trotting 1000 out

Yep great day but the race club need to learn the system of buying beer tickets does not work huge cues no fixed odds betting piss weak bookies offering unders to the gullible

loose_goose · April 2014

The day of bush bookies giving reasonable odds is long gone.

Re Beer tickets I have seen cash buying and ticket buying not work, just really hard with big crowds. Best option is Can beers around the place, so people do not congregate in 1 place trying to get a drink

SPUDLEY · April 2014

How about some proper horse stalls heard what they have is below par.

therealkramer · April 2014

.

youknowit · April 2014

Punting tragic. Starting to get a little sick of your continued disparaging remarks about bookmakers. No atmosphere in the ascot ring, clerks are rude, and bookies need to grow a set of balls. Get rid of them and bring in sportsbet and betfair! Bookies at Dongara pissweak and betting unders. My thought. Go and get your own bookies licence and show us all how its done.Get a clerk with great personality, bet the right prices, show us your balls, and win a fortune!!

PuntingTragic · April 2014

youknowit said:
Punting tragic. Starting to get a little sick of your continued disparaging remarks about bookmakers. No atmosphere in the ascot ring, clerks are rude, and bookies need to grow a set of balls. Get rid of them and bring in sportsbet and betfair! Bookies at Dongara pissweak and betting unders. My thought. Go and get your own bookies licence and show us all how its done.Get a clerk with great personality, bet the right prices, show us your balls, and win a fortune!!

Il give 10/9 on your a bookie lol who cares what your sick off bookies betting 1.50 on a horse the tote had at 2.60 is bullshit at a country meet like Dongara

Yes get rid of bookmakers on course full stop il give you 10/9 also no on course bookmakers currently working will be around in 5 years as on course bookies it's a dieing art they can't an dont compete yes they are rude create no atmosphere as they once did in the 70s n 80s they are just a hindrance mostly

PuntingTragic · April 2014

SPUDLEY said:
How about some proper horse stalls heard what they have is below par.

To be fair it is a once a year picnic meet that draws a big crowd they can't cope with Sheila's toilet 100 deep cue drinks tickets 100 deep cue

The biggest Rort was they sold beer tickets after race 4 then closed the bar after the cup one race to go an people got stick with piles of useless drink tickets people were fuming

It's a great day good racing great atmosphere just the club can't work out a better system fir dinks agree on the several outlets for beers rather than one an get adequate toilets for ladies

It's a brilliant vibe bugger crowd Nearky than WA derby day at ascot get the logistics right it's been a 10 year issue since I've been going every year I place my bets on in town before as you can't get fixed odds on track an the cues are hideous or I use my ph that's if the no if people don't ham the coverage xx

RIO · April 2014

I'd hate to go to these country/picnic meetings and have it anything like the city.. part of the fun is to mix in with the locals..use the tote for roughies and novelties and the bookies for the rest..i always go to the bookies at these cups...never get tote prices but use them so they will come back next time.....if you go to theses places and are serious about punting....your probably lost!!!!!

bookielover · April 2014

The whole idea of going to a race meeting if you are a punter who takes the punt seriously, is to shop around for the best value about the horse you want to back.

Someone once said that you can't eat value. but if you don't get value for your dollar, and don't win the amount that you should win when your horse salutes, then you will go broke.

I recall the late Brian Blackmore who called all the Country races in Victoria for about 40 years, calling at Mildura one day. The favourite won the first race. It started @.2.30 after 2.70 was bet, in a 4 bookie ring working to 147% on that race. The horse paid 1.90 on the tote. Blackmore commented on the discrepancy saying that you could have got 2.70 had you been on track, and then finished by saying what every mug punter says when being paid 1.90 about a 2.70 winner. "well, I suppose that it's better than backing a loser".

If the bookies are $1.50 the horse you want to back, and there is 15 seconds to go, and the tote is $2.50, then there is a reasonable chance that the tote will hold up, but not a guaranteed chance that it will, you should have your money on with the tote. That's not a reason to despise the bookies who put up the $1.50, that's a reason to be happy that you didn't take the $1.50 and got the 2.50 that was the value on the tote.

Bookmakers are free to frame their markets however they want to. Supply and demand and market forces,will dictate whether or not anyone accepts the odds that they offer. Punta put up an early market every Saturday morning. No one at Punta is twisting anyone's arm to take those odds. If you think that what they are offering is value, you will bet with them. If not, you will shop elsewhere.

The reason that bookies at many country tracks who put up 150% and more, get caught out, after all, who would want to punt into a 150% market, is that they compress the odds of horses that are 10.00 or better compared with their price on the tote.

Just look at Sundays results from the Country meetings, and you will note that when the outsiders win, the tote beats the bookies nearly every time. And then take a look at the what the tote pays when a short priced horse wins, say 5.00 or under, and compare that to the top fluc bet by the bookies. The bookies beat the tote at least 80% or more, of the time.

BUT, buy compressing the odds of the outsiders, it means that odds of the fancied horses become value to those that have done their own markets, and all the pros do that, and the bookies still get caught out giving 4.00 in a 150% market about a horse, which the pros have priced at $2.50.

The bookies erroneously believe that they are protected by the high %, but it's no good having 10 horses in a 14 horse field at false odds, particularly in races where the form has been well and truly exposed. The pros knows that, for example, the horse that the bookies have at 15.00 and is 28.00 on the tote, is a genuine 25/1 chance, and won't go near it. They pick the eyes out of the market in the horses that they have summarised to be the only chances, on paper, at least, and those are the one or two horses that they back.

Now, I'm not saying that if the bookies put up a market of 116% that the pros would back the outsiders with the bookies because now their odds would be more commensurate with the totes. They will more than likely go on Betfair, where they can get double or triple the odds of an outsider than the tote or bookies bet.

But what it would do for the bookies, if they put up 116% or at the most 120%, is ensure that the prices of the horses that the pros want to back, are a better reflection of the price that the horse should be. I have seen horses at Grafton, for example, that were backed from 5.00 into 2.50 at a mid-week meeting, in a market that opened at 175% and closed, at the best price bet, or top fluc as it's known, at 152%.

And I'll bet, the bookies that worked there, still haven't worked out how they could get caught like that, with so much percentage in their favour.

So, to people like punting tragic, who displays an abnormal obsessive hatred for bookies, the choice is theirs when they go to the track, not to bet with them

As far as I am concerned, I'll bet with whomever, be it man or machine, offers me the best price/value on the horse that I want to back.

And I can tell you now from years of personal experience, that at Country/Provincial meetings in particular, the best value for the top 4 fancies in a race, even in high % markets, is 90% of the time with the bookie.

Reins · April 2014

Was the meeting run at Dongara or Geraldton?

Chris · April 2014

Dongara I'd say.

Vic TAB fail to have the very advanced feature of being able to enter new tracks names, and Sky follow suit so not to confuse the punters, which means Dongara gets named as the closest regular track that's in the system.

SPUDLEY · April 2014

Hey FWS all it will take is either a horse getting loose and hurting a member of the public or a little kid getting too close to a horse that is not in a horse stall getting kicked and Dongara will cease to exist as the insurance cost will be astronomical all I want is some sort of practical tie up area for the horses surely someone involved can organise something better.

SLIPPERGOLDEN · April 2014

Off topic but Bookielover you mentioned Brian Blackmore... don't think it was him but could have been (may have been a Brian)....but who was the Victorian caller (country races) late 70s early 80s who used to call it as it was? He used to give poor jockey rides a real serve during and after a race.... he probably had backed some of them. I don't now if he retired or was asked to do so but he was very forward with his opinions.

bookielover · April 2014

Hi Slippergolden.

Yes, it was Brian. He was a good bloke who had a few problems.

Firstly he had a major medical issue with Diabetes, which eventually sent him to a much too early grave. He fancied a drink, and once got suspended from calling because he made disparaging remarks about Courage beer who were a sponsor of the 3UZ at the time. He said Courage beer was rubbish compared to Fosters. That didn't go down too well with the people at Courage.

He was the 2 I.C. to Bill Collins and once went around having bets in Bills name on credit with the bookies when Bill wasn't at the track, lost, and got suspended again until he paid. This wasn't made public at the time, and the reason for his absence from radio was given as ill health.

He would, as you say, pay out on jockeys who slaughtered their mounts, particularly when he had his own on.

I actually had a go at him about his Mildura comment. he said that he was about to say that punters who don't go to the track to compare the odds are idiots, but held himself back because the TAB were big sponsors of the racing at that time.

When you think about it, even today, course commentators and presenters, rarely if ever say that punters who copped 2.50 on the Tote when 3.50 was given in the ring, should be at the track to get the best odds.

In that regard, as promoters of the racing product, and encouraging people to come to the track,race callers and most presenters are worse than useless.

Aquanita · April 2014

Brian was suspended for telling the truth, courage was a terrible beer.

SLIPPERGOLDEN · April 2014

Thanks for that info Bookielover. Diabetes and alcohol certainly not a good combination.

PuntingTragic · April 2014

Bookie lover lets get one thing straight I don't hate bookies they play a part ok

I am saying that living in denial that on course bookmakers are in serious danger of imminent collapse is having your head up your ass

I loved repeat loved the bookies rings in there heyday it was awesome colour glamour excitement huge competition great characters repeat loved the bookies rings

Now an in repeat again the bookies rings at most tracks are dull not value unfriendly not competeing and not doing anything to address the issue an not giving punters what they want period

The bookies at Dongara one day too advantage of the tote breaking down for virtually the whole meeting they framed shit markets an robbed people blind

I would love to see some grunt back into on course rings but face facts they are dead as door nails an the value is just not there if it is as some claim why are they declining in nos getting less an less popular an most people on track ignore they are even there as they can use Betfair or sports bet or Tom Waterhouse who offer better service

I am personally not against any bookie but they are hanging them selves thru boring an inept service

As for the stables at Dongara an tie up yards I have to agree they are not safe an a real chance of a horse bolting thru a packed crowd is very real there the tie ups are inadequate but it is a once a year meet so what's the solution

They have a new committee who need to address the large crowd logistics the track is amazing for a once a year meet its a on pace bias nothing comes from the back much at all I love the day but shits me the logistics are so very bad

youknowit · April 2014

To Punting Tragic, 10/9 on 10/9 against. Not very good prices from you and your wrong about me being a bookie, just as you were wrong about All Legal winning a 2000 mtre race in Perth and your smart ass remark about it doesn't do 2000mtrs at training, didn't hear from you when you got it wrong. No I'm a former bookies clerk who gave it away because I couldn't put up with the few whingeing moaning punters. Suggest one of them was you. In saying that most clients were great people.

At Dongara bookies were $1.50 and the tote was $2.60. What time in betting? How much was in the win Pool? But you wouldn't have noticed because you were to busy watching the sheilas 100 deep at the toilets!

youknowit · April 2014

Punting Tragic
You want the bookies back working like they were in the 70's and 80's because bookies now don't give you value! Bookies in the 70's and 80's were serving up 125% to 135% every race. Nowadays in the Perth ring the percentages bet at Top Fluc get down as low as 100%. Their not competing? Not giving value? Not giving punters what they want period! What do the punters want? Don't think you have and idea of value!! Its the best value offered to punters for a very long time.

SLIPPERGOLDEN · April 2014

Bookies in 70s & 80s... I recall my only day at Moora and there was a race with two odds on an evens and 6/4... in the same race. Other races had two odds on in the same race.

youknowit · April 2014

TALKING ABOUT THE BOOKIES IN PERTH FOR GODS SAKE! NO MENTION OF MOORA!

PuntingTragic · April 2014

youknowit said:
Punting Tragic
You want the bookies back working like they were in the 70's and 80's because bookies now don't give you value! Bookies in the 70's and 80's were serving up 125% to 135% every race. Nowadays in the Perth ring the percentages bet at Top Fluc get down as low as 100%. Their not competing? Not giving value? Not giving punters what they want period! What do the punters want? Don't think you have and idea of value!! Its the best value offered to punters for a very long time.

What I know mate is on course bookies are not gojng to be there in 5 years the sheer weight of the corps money will blow them out of the water

I see no value in betting with on course bookies v Betfair or sports bet or Tom Waterhouse.com all 3 blow the ascot rung away for value how many on course bookies at ascot paid first 4 in the Doncaster or pay on a horse relegated by protest NONE

I know what value is an I don't find it in the bookies rung at ascot

Legless · April 2014

if you still have an account with Sportsbet or Tom Waterhouse it shows how good you are going :D

PuntingTragic · April 2014

youknowit said:
To Punting Tragic, 10/9 on 10/9 against. Not very good prices from you and your wrong about me being a bookie, just as you were wrong about All Legal winning a 2000 mtre race in Perth and your smart ass remark about it doesn't do 2000mtrs at training, didn't hear from you when you got it wrong. No I'm a former bookies clerk who gave it away because I couldn't put up with the few whingeing moaning punters. Suggest one of them was you. In saying that most clients were great people.

At Dongara bookies were $1.50 and the tote was $2.60. What time in betting? How much was in the win Pool? But you wouldn't have noticed because you were to busy watching the sheilas 100 deep at the toilets!

What is all legal winning at 2000 m
Never heard of that horse or did I make that statement care to pull the post up where i did lol

Now your just making shit up so your a FORMER bookies clerk gee that' must look great on your CV

YOU could not stand whinging punters went they your customers wernt they paying your wages yet you call them whingers an you quit your high powered bookies clerk Job lol

I rest my case you should form a retirement club could get pretty big

PuntingTragic · April 2014

@legless I have an account with neither

G'day Punter!

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