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I guess these days if you are out of your class and you win you will cop severe penalties.
If the weights/classes were structured differently as I have suggested you could carry the weight you deserve eg. 48 kg and you would surely cop a lesser penalty if you win.
Beating a field with 48kg vs winning with the mandatory 54kg would surely mean a lower penalty.
You really aren't racing out of your class if the weights are spread widely, you are choosing a distance not class. In fact class would be irrelevant.
Ngawyni likes this post.
I honestly believe that nothing but radical, independent changes will work to save the WA industry.
It's a shame my previous posts in this thread have failed miserably to generate anything.
Obviously no one agrees; seemingly no one hates them. Perhaps everyone just pities the crazy person.
If you can allocate low weights in those races, you can do it anytime.
If the jockey's weights are that much of a problem (most apprentices these days are girls anyway) then get real and raise weights higher.
Hurdlers carry 70+ kg over 3 miles jumping on soft tracks.
In my opinion, the narrow 'spread' of weights is killing racing and making it a boring product to bet on.
paraletic, Ngawyni, Tucool, oldhendo, Legless likes this post.
Brad Waters - 10 Feb 2014
"Two-year-olds Boomwaa and Bugatty are in line for one of racing's toughest tests in Saturday's Group I Black Caviar Lightning (1000m) at Flemington.
Boomwaa and Bugatty are among 14 nominations for the $500,000 contest. The pair will carry 46kg under the weight-for-age conditions of the Black Caviar Lightning.
Trainer Robbie Laing has engaged Dean Yendall to ride Boomwaa in the Lightning Stakes while Hawkes Racing would need to scour the lightweight riding ranks for a partner for Bugatty..........."
You can run with light weights. Only on limited occasions.
Nonsensical!
i am just not interested enough these days as far as all this stuff goes.
you just need to know that it is stuffed(not just wa), and a good part of the reason it is stuffed in wa is because the racing department of rwwa.
it is full of people that have no idea of how to do their jobs.
one way of fixing it all, is to take notice of all the rwwa changes to their templates, and the dumbing down of the joint, and catering to the whims of trainers and owners that obviously understand racing about as much as the rwwa guys do.
and then.......DO THE OPPOSITE!!!
=))
thefalcon likes this post.
but there is nothing to stop them going back to 52 or 53 AND increasing the minimum top weights to get a MUCH greater spread.
but what is really really really really really really ridiculous, is that the rwwa racing department saw the need to introduce those swp races for a lot of stakes races and those idiotic special weights for 3yo's(thankfully they are no more now)
they did that so that the better horse would not have to carry what those people(wa handicappers well at least one of them) thought was too much, thus disadvantaging the rest.
we know that for a fact because the evidence is on twitter from one ex chief handicapper.
any half wit that knew the slightest thing about statistics would have ALREADY KNOWN that those better horse do not need protecting as they already win MUCH more than statistically expected.
i think that they don't give a fig for their home state, because i would be pretty sure the bulk of rwwa's income would be from out of state product(i may be wrong but doubt it)
amyquil is wrong where class is concerned i think.
you need races of high standards(or to give the impression they are high standard, which would be simple to do) to entice interest in the product.
and less is better. there is just too much racing.
look at all the countries where racing is still king.
ColourfulRD likes this post.
52kg minimum would be a good starting point and assess from there.
HK minimum 51.5kg (maximum 60.5kg) and can cater for Group 1 to Class 5 in just 2 meetings a week (with maximum fields in 95% of races).
When your system is broken, look at HK for a solution.
Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.
Ngawyni likes this post.
The second link relates to normal benchmark races:
The top weight in New South Wales benchmark races will rise by 2kg from October 1 as Racing NSW attempts to increase field sizes to make the product more attractive to punters.
The racing regulator announced a host of changes to minimum top weights, benchmark rating adjustments and apprentice jockey claims designed to enhance "metropolitan field sizes and country participation".
one way to do that too, is to handicap from the bottom up, not top down as it appears that they now do.
a jurisdiction like perth would not have sufficient top horses, but it would be simple to give the impression that they are an elite group in the upper echelon.
as far as big weights go, i think my biggest ever win in on track, was the day forest boy(think it was called that) trained by ex wa bloke armanasco won with 65kg in melbourne.
it's nonsense when they complain about carrying grandstand and all the rest of it.
it is relative weights that matter most, not actual.
and despite 65 it WAS well weighted!!
Amyquil likes this post.
The second link relates to normal benchmark races:
The top weight in New South Wales benchmark races will rise by 2kg from October 1 as Racing NSW attempts to increase field sizes to make the product more attractive to punters.
The racing regulator announced a host of changes to minimum top weights, benchmark rating adjustments and apprentice jockey claims designed to enhance "metropolitan field sizes and country participation".
Sorry, meant to thank you for that. Got to be a step in the right direction.
Ngawyni likes this post.
oh well, stick with small fields then and stop complaining.
I wasn't referring to any particular horse copping a penalty.
I was referring to how many times we don't run them because of what they will cop.
ColourfulRD likes this post.
it has ALWAYS been thus, it is just that the public(or connections) never saw the scales that handicappers have always used.
it was easy enough to figure for those interested enough though.
in other words they have ALWAYS paid the penalty for winning(or placing except wa!!!) out of their class.
So there, for one stable, is extra runners.
Multiply by how many stables = ?
and to me it just means that you are racing horse way out of their class, and to be honest i can't remember seeing your stable do that very often at all.
give me some examples of where you reckon the rise in the ratings was too much?
not to mention, it has always been thus, so your thinking that it is only since the ratings were public, IS wrong.
I said it's not about where horses have got points, its about when we won't race horses in high rating, low field number races.
Is the same for everyone
and that is plainly nonsensical thinking.
but, i don't understand your last post.
if you mean you won't race horses in theoretical high class races(and low numbers), then that is because most races these days are for scrubbers in perth, and there is no clear pathway up the classes, so there is very rarely NOT going to be most of the field out of the handicap in the higher
grade races, and why they get whopping rating rises when ooth horses win.
these days the top races outside of listed is a 78+ and that is not too often.
a listed unscaled is 90+ and that is a whopping 6kg difference between one and the next, and is way too much.
that is where your problem is derived from.
and THAT is a failure of rwwa, and their entire class system.......they have screwed it.
Amyquil likes this post.
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thefalcon likes this post.