Bunbury v Kellerberrin

warrenrobinson · June 15

The total Tabtouch win pool Saturday Bunbury $21223, Kellerberrin $25881, both had 7 races. RWWA stakes paid, Bunbury $65520, Kellerberrin $43680 (plus club funded subsidy) $6320. Which meeting cost the least to run?

warrenrobinson · June 15

warrenrobinson said:
The total Tabtouch win pool Saturday Bunbury $21223, Kellerberrin $25881, both had 7 races. RWWA stakes paid, Bunbury $65520, Kellerberrin $43680 (plus club funded subsidy) $6320. Which meeting cost the least to run?

Total 65 runners Bunbury, Kellerberrin 67.

Frog · June 15

Kella by a mile.

warrenrobinson · June 15

The Kalgoorlie races on Sunday lowest win pool race was 12.9k with the highest win pool being 40.6k. Total for the meeting 161.8k. Harness is going along swimmingly( No Handicap No Turnover No Future). RWWA appointed a Special Projects Manager back in 2023 so what has he achieved to help grow and make our industry better?.

watchingu · June 16

as discussed before gallops get maximum exposure on 4 tv channels

what did keller get ? sharing the blue channel `s split screen with places in the world ive never heard of .

if keller was on racing wa `s tv im sure punters on kal bored between races would have a crack at the trots ?

checkout the financial reports and have a look at how much these clowns are on , they are there for their wallets only .

Markovina · June 16

watchingu said:
as discussed before gallops get maximum exposure on 4 tv channels

what did keller get ? sharing the blue channel `s split screen with places in the world ive never heard of .

if keller was on racing wa `s tv im sure punters on kal bored between races would have a crack at the trots ?

checkout the financial reports and have a look at how much these clowns are on , they are there for their wallets only .

Not suggesting anything untoward at RWWA whatsoever

But did you read the other week - they listed what the CEOs at the various councils around Perth and WA were on $ wise per year , some were getting more than the Prime Minister !!! . And how many councils and this applies Aust wiode where it is a toxic environment between councillors - the CEO has been sacked or under investigation , and the various state govts have had to take over running the council

ICAC currently investigating Parramatta Council - last 4 weeks grilling 3 ladies - known as the Pink ladies including the CEO she was on 500k - emp[oying their friends - paying out friends - giving them an early release so one got 350k - the judge hasnt heard everything yet to determine whether criminal charges will be laid

Im comfortable but im far far off being anywhere remotely wealthy but i havent cheated anyone for my money

Id love to know how many lawyers have massively overcharged their clients re hours worked- when they actually havent worked them

Recent case in Sydney - lawyer bloke about 60 up before the courts - from an emminent legal family - 2 of his brothers are current high profile judges - i think his father was a judge to . Found guilty of massively overcharging ( in the millions ) one of the NSW Riverina councils - might have been Griffith . He was o/seas on holiday for part of the time - and when he was he was charging the council 36 hours a day at his rate of $600-$700 an hour , the lady judge sentencing - said the only reason your not getting 3 yrs jail is because you pleaded guilty

If you want to get rich quick - there is only 1 country you come to and thats Aust

warrenrobinson · June 16

watchingu said:
as discussed before gallops get maximum exposure on 4 tv channels

what did keller get ? sharing the blue channel `s split screen with places in the world ive never heard of .

if keller was on racing wa `s tv im sure punters on kal bored between races would have a crack at the trots ?

checkout the financial reports and have a look at how much these clowns are on , they are there for their wallets only .

Interesting comment Watchingu,i was watching Kalgoorlie on Sunday, RWWA had two presenters interviewing participants on the ground at the meeting with behind the camera staff plus two presenters in the studio in Perth plus also behind the camera staff. The cost of air fares plus other expenses would be a interesting figure. Surely this is discrimination against Harness..

AbbysAce · June 17

You would be better off running a Saturday morning meeting ( 9.30am to noon WA time ) than a Saturday night meeting.

That would be 11.30am to 2pm Easern states or 12.30pm to 3pm in daylight savings.

Remember the 1st 5 races on a Saturday night are on sky 2 anyway , so only the last 2 races are on sky 1 ( at about 11pm eastern states time)

Worth a try, cant be any worse.

LightningJake · June 18

My thoughts...Logistically, a trainer getting to the races for a 9am start would be extremely difficult to achieve on a routine basis when travel time & having to be clocked in on course 1 hour before their race at 9am, is taken into consideration. Not to mention track maintenance. On a stinking hot WA summer, the track may require 3 or 4 hours of watering before racing can start. Nup, wouldn't be in favour of a meeting routinely starting at 9 am. As it is, if I have a runner in the first at Pinjarra on, say, a big 10 race card, I have to be on the road by about 5:30-6am. As a trainer with a small stable, so no employees to do the remaining horse work, it is not a good mix.
I understand you're suggesting a change for a reason, but in our big state, I don't think it would work.

warrenrobinson · June 19

We have to fix the problem first, handicapping, integrity and our industry's best customer, the participant. Handicapping is a practice of assigning scoring compensations or advantages to different contestants to equalize their chances of winning to compete fairly. My horse Fiord who has won 10 races is a NR45, my other horse Altar who has won 1 race is a NR49, Margimac who also has won 1 race is a NR52. This is not handicapping.

Markovina · June 19

Here is one for Warren , might bring back memories

But my Sept/Oct 1977 edition of Harness Horse which i received in the mail this week - so we are talking about nearly 50 years ago

But there is a section - horses to follow re the punt - and there about half a dozen listed for each state

WA - there is a horse called Each Way - even got its breeding Admiral Way - Wilvetta LJ Robinson - and this is the comment "Has the ability to graduate to open class ranks - has not enjoyed much luck in several recent runs "

So what happened did it become a top pacer ?

The other WA horses to follow were Bel Bromac - TB Warwick New Viking - FT Godecke Tous Eteille J Schrader Quicksilver ( a full brother to Pure Steel ) M R Roberts San Lisa M Johnson

Did any of them become top liners

Chopchop43 · June 19

warrenrobinson said:
We have to fix the problem first, handicapping, integrity and our industry's best customer, the participant. Handicapping is a practice of assigning scoring compensations or advantages to different contestants to equalize their chances of winning to compete fairly. My horse Fiord who has won 10 races is a NR45, my other horse Altar who has won 1 race is a NR49, Margimac who also has won 1 race is a NR52. This is not handicapping.

I said it over and over and over again when it was first spoken about bringing the nr system over here, its a terrible system on no planet is it fair to have a horse thats won 12 races, compete against horses who have won 1 or 2 races, punters will not want to bet on that garbage. An overwhelming amount of eastern states participants openly chastised the system, its a system that promotes mediocrity and punishes younger horses and horses with a decent amount of ability way too harshly way too quickly

warrenrobinson · June 19

Markovina said:
Here is one for Warren , might bring back memories

But my Sept/Oct 1977 edition of Harness Horse which i received in the mail this week - so we are talking about nearly 50 years ago

But there is a section - horses to follow re the punt - and there about half a dozen listed for each state

WA - there is a horse called Each Way - even got its breeding Admiral Way - Wilvetta LJ Robinson - and this is the comment "Has the ability to graduate to open class ranks - has not enjoyed much luck in several recent runs "

So what happened did it become a top pacer ?

The other WA horses to follow were Bel Bromac - TB Warwick New Viking - FT Godecke Tous Eteille J Schrader Quicksilver ( a full brother to Pure Steel ) M R Roberts San Lisa M Johnson

Did any of them become top liners

Each Way was a very good horse not only for my father but also me. I won the last three races with him graduating into fast class which at the time was 2.16 mark. Ted Abbott then purchased him to race in the USA where with his full brothers Coolup Way and Placid Way won around a 100 races between them. I find the breakdown and let you know.

AbbysAce · June 19

LightningJake said:
My thoughts...Logistically, a trainer getting to the races for a 9am start would be extremely difficult to achieve on a routine basis when travel time & having to be clocked in on course 1 hour before their race at 9am, is taken into consideration. Not to mention track maintenance. On a stinking hot WA summer, the track may require 3 or 4 hours of watering before racing can start. Nup, wouldn't be in favour of a meeting routinely starting at 9 am. As it is, if I have a runner in the first at Pinjarra on, say, a big 10 race card, I have to be on the road by about 5:30-6am. As a trainer with a small stable, so no employees to do the remaining horse work, it is not a good mix.
I understand you're suggesting a change for a reason, but in our big state, I don't think it would work.

Big state, most of the stables are SOR, straight down the freeway.

If your seen the dust at the start of a Bunbury race they dont water the track too much.

So you train trotters as thats the 1st race at Pinarra most times? I think your adding a fair bit of mayo there, 5.30am on the road, the 1st is at noon most times or later

Chopchop43 · June 19

AbbysAce said:

LightningJake said:
My thoughts...Logistically, a trainer getting to the races for a 9am start would be extremely difficult to achieve on a routine basis when travel time & having to be clocked in on course 1 hour before their race at 9am, is taken into consideration. Not to mention track maintenance. On a stinking hot WA summer, the track may require 3 or 4 hours of watering before racing can start. Nup, wouldn't be in favour of a meeting routinely starting at 9 am. As it is, if I have a runner in the first at Pinjarra on, say, a big 10 race card, I have to be on the road by about 5:30-6am. As a trainer with a small stable, so no employees to do the remaining horse work, it is not a good mix.
I understand you're suggesting a change for a reason, but in our big state, I don't think it would work.
Big state, most of the stables are SOR, straight down the freeway.
If your seen the dust at the start of a Bunbury race they dont water the track too much.
So you train trotters as thats the 1st race at Pinarra most times? I think your adding a fair bit of mayo there, 5.30am on the road, the 1st is at noon most times or later

i think you have to take into consideration tho a decent majority of trainers would of had late night the night before, especially if there is a dual meeting , youd be asking alot from the bigger stables to then get up even earlier to have their horses worked just so they could be on the road in time, instead of saturdays what's wrong with full time sunday afternoon meetings? Your not having to compete with Saturdays bumper gallops meetings either , which if run on a Saturday morning will definitely resign you to sky2 aswell

Markovina · June 23

From the 1977 Sept/Oct edition of Harness Horse magazine with a beautiful colour picture of the great Royal Gaze with Ken Pocock in the sulky

This is something i wasnt aware of but from the Queensland state section with Wayne Wilson as the Qld corrrespondent

The Headline " Mick Dittman is a Future Trotting Star Personality "

Brisbane Trotting will soon see a new name in the driving lineup . While the name is new to trotting its certainly one of the best known names in Australian racing ..... Len ( Mick)

Dittman

Dittman regarded as one of the top jockeys in Australia has been given a clearance by the Qld Turf Club to make application to the Qld Trotting Board for a drivers licence

Dittman is no stranger to Trotters " When i was apprenticed to Bill Krafft a few years back i used to drive trotters , ive allways been keen on them , and really i find it quite exciting to drive , so im really looking forward to it "

Dittman is a 49kg lightweight , will have a bit of a start on some of his heavier counterparts . " Some people say weight doesnt make any difference , but i know that id rather be pulling 8 stone rather than 16 stone " .

He seemed pretty keen Mick , i wonder if that ever eventuated , and better still whether he drove any winners at Albion Park

LightningJake · June 26

AbbysAce said:

LightningJake said:
My thoughts...Logistically, a trainer getting to the races for a 9am start would be extremely difficult to achieve on a routine basis when travel time & having to be clocked in on course 1 hour before their race at 9am, is taken into consideration. Not to mention track maintenance. On a stinking hot WA summer, the track may require 3 or 4 hours of watering before racing can start. Nup, wouldn't be in favour of a meeting routinely starting at 9 am. As it is, if I have a runner in the first at Pinjarra on, say, a big 10 race card, I have to be on the road by about 5:30-6am. As a trainer with a small stable, so no employees to do the remaining horse work, it is not a good mix.
I understand you're suggesting a change for a reason, but in our big state, I don't think it would work.
Big state, most of the stables are SOR, straight down the freeway.
If your seen the dust at the start of a Bunbury race they dont water the track too much.
So you train trotters as thats the 1st race at Pinarra most times? I think your adding a fair bit of mayo there, 5.30am on the road, the 1st is at noon most times or later

How narrow minded and condescending of you AbbysAce!

Not all trainers can drive "straight down the freeway".

We allow 2 3/4hrs to 3 hrs to get to Pinjarra and that's after checking the Main Roads Travel Map for any roadworks we might have to detour around and the Emergency WA app. On many occasions we have had to contend with both thick smoke from an inversion and just plain ole thick fog that has literally brought us to a standstill when driving to Pinjarra trials.

We also allow an arrival time of 1.5 hours before race time in deference to the longer travel time our horses have to endure.

The earliest trial at Pinjarra we have been in was 9:00am! This definitely required a 5am "on the road" start, which meant a 4am alarm set so the poor 2yr old could have some breakfast before she sleepwalked onto the float. The earliest pacing race we have attended at Pinjarra was 10:14am. Certainly NOT any mayo applied!!!

warrenrobinson · June 27

warrenrobinson said:

Markovina said:
Here is one for Warren , might bring back memories

But my Sept/Oct 1977 edition of Harness Horse which i received in the mail this week - so we are talking about nearly 50 years ago

But there is a section - horses to follow re the punt - and there about half a dozen listed for each state

WA - there is a horse called Each Way - even got its breeding Admiral Way - Wilvetta LJ Robinson - and this is the comment "Has the ability to graduate to open class ranks - has not enjoyed much luck in several recent runs "

So what happened did it become a top pacer ?

The other WA horses to follow were Bel Bromac - TB Warwick New Viking - FT Godecke Tous Eteille J Schrader Quicksilver ( a full brother to Pure Steel ) M R Roberts San Lisa M Johnson

Did any of them become top liners
Each Way was a very good horse not only for my father but also me. I won the last three races with him graduating into fast class which at the time was 2.16 mark. Ted Abbott then purchased him to race in the USA where with his full brothers Coolup Way and Placid Way won around a 100 races between them. I find the breakdown and let you know.

Morning Marko, Just an update on Each Way, 32 wins USA, 13 wins WA, His full brothers, Coolup Way, 35 wins USA, 19 wins WA, Placid Way 33 wins USA, 11 wins WA. The dam Wilvetta would have to be the greatest broodmare WA has produced as she produced other winners also, update will follow.

AbbysAce · June 27

LightningJake said:

AbbysAce said:

LightningJake said:
My thoughts...Logistically, a trainer getting to the races for a 9am start would be extremely difficult to achieve on a routine basis when travel time & having to be clocked in on course 1 hour before their race at 9am, is taken into consideration. Not to mention track maintenance. On a stinking hot WA summer, the track may require 3 or 4 hours of watering before racing can start. Nup, wouldn't be in favour of a meeting routinely starting at 9 am. As it is, if I have a runner in the first at Pinjarra on, say, a big 10 race card, I have to be on the road by about 5:30-6am. As a trainer with a small stable, so no employees to do the remaining horse work, it is not a good mix.
I understand you're suggesting a change for a reason, but in our big state, I don't think it would work.
Big state, most of the stables are SOR, straight down the freeway.
If your seen the dust at the start of a Bunbury race they dont water the track too much.
So you train trotters as thats the 1st race at Pinarra most times? I think your adding a fair bit of mayo there, 5.30am on the road, the 1st is at noon most times or later
How narrow minded and condescending of you AbbysAce!

Not all trainers can drive "straight down the freeway".

We allow 2 3/4hrs to 3 hrs to get to Pinjarra and that's after checking the Main Roads Travel Map for any roadworks we might have to detour around and the Emergency WA app. On many occasions we have had to contend with both thick smoke from an inversion and just plain ole thick fog that has literally brought us to a standstill when driving to Pinjarra trials.

We also allow an arrival time of 1.5 hours before race time in deference to the longer travel time our horses have to endure.

The earliest trial at Pinjarra we have been in was 9:00am! This definitely required a 5am "on the road" start, which meant a 4am alarm set so the poor 2yr old could have some breakfast before she sleepwalked onto the float. The earliest pacing race we have attended at Pinjarra was 10:14am. Certainly NOT any mayo applied!!!

So you train trotters as thats the 1st race again on Monday at 12.03 ? :((

If you go back to my 1st comment i was saying i think it was worth a try at swap saturday night meetings to saturday mornings for turnover, good luck with your trotter on Monday.

Chopchop43 · June 27

AbbysAce said:

LightningJake said:

AbbysAce said:

LightningJake said:
My thoughts...Logistically, a trainer getting to the races for a 9am start would be extremely difficult to achieve on a routine basis when travel time & having to be clocked in on course 1 hour before their race at 9am, is taken into consideration. Not to mention track maintenance. On a stinking hot WA summer, the track may require 3 or 4 hours of watering before racing can start. Nup, wouldn't be in favour of a meeting routinely starting at 9 am. As it is, if I have a runner in the first at Pinjarra on, say, a big 10 race card, I have to be on the road by about 5:30-6am. As a trainer with a small stable, so no employees to do the remaining horse work, it is not a good mix.
I understand you're suggesting a change for a reason, but in our big state, I don't think it would work.
Big state, most of the stables are SOR, straight down the freeway.
If your seen the dust at the start of a Bunbury race they dont water the track too much.
So you train trotters as thats the 1st race at Pinarra most times? I think your adding a fair bit of mayo there, 5.30am on the road, the 1st is at noon most times or later
How narrow minded and condescending of you AbbysAce!

Not all trainers can drive "straight down the freeway".

We allow 2 3/4hrs to 3 hrs to get to Pinjarra and that's after checking the Main Roads Travel Map for any roadworks we might have to detour around and the Emergency WA app. On many occasions we have had to contend with both thick smoke from an inversion and just plain ole thick fog that has literally brought us to a standstill when driving to Pinjarra trials.

We also allow an arrival time of 1.5 hours before race time in deference to the longer travel time our horses have to endure.

The earliest trial at Pinjarra we have been in was 9:00am! This definitely required a 5am "on the road" start, which meant a 4am alarm set so the poor 2yr old could have some breakfast before she sleepwalked onto the float. The earliest pacing race we have attended at Pinjarra was 10:14am. Certainly NOT any mayo applied!!!
So you train trotters as thats the 1st race again on Monday at 12.03 ? :((
If you go back to my 1st comment i was saying i think it was worth a try at swap saturday night meetings to saturday mornings for turnover, good luck with your trotter on Monday.

quick question tho, wouldn't that mean our trots would be competing directly with Eastern states gallops ? I mean that makes zero sense , you would be better off scrapping Saturdays and just running sunday day meetings permanently

Frog · June 27

WA trots, had there chance Wednesday morning/lunch Sky 1, turnover

was much more than other mid/weeks meetings. Had a chance Bunbury

every Wednesday Sky 1.People betting at prime time for the eastern states.

Not good enough for RWWA. As Saturday nights has punters attentions

on AFL, NRL and EPL.

warrenrobinson · June 27

warrenrobinson said:

warrenrobinson said:

Markovina said:
Here is one for Warren , might bring back memories

But my Sept/Oct 1977 edition of Harness Horse which i received in the mail this week - so we are talking about nearly 50 years ago

But there is a section - horses to follow re the punt - and there about half a dozen listed for each state

WA - there is a horse called Each Way - even got its breeding Admiral Way - Wilvetta LJ Robinson - and this is the comment "Has the ability to graduate to open class ranks - has not enjoyed much luck in several recent runs "

So what happened did it become a top pacer ?

The other WA horses to follow were Bel Bromac - TB Warwick New Viking - FT Godecke Tous Eteille J Schrader Quicksilver ( a full brother to Pure Steel ) M R Roberts San Lisa M Johnson

Did any of them become top liners
Each Way was a very good horse not only for my father but also me. I won the last three races with him graduating into fast class which at the time was 2.16 mark. Ted Abbott then purchased him to race in the USA where with his full brothers Coolup Way and Placid Way won around a 100 races between them. I find the breakdown and let you know.
Morning Marko, Just an update on Each Way, 32 wins USA, 13 wins WA, His full brothers, Coolup Way, 35 wins USA, 19 wins WA, Placid Way 33 wins USA, 11 wins WA. The dam Wilvetta would have to be the greatest broodmare WA has produced as she produced other winners also, update will follow.

Morning Marko,Part 2 Each Way's dam Wilvetta also produced Audrine 13 wins, Lahaud 6 wins, Yelta 7 wins, Willette 3 wins, Stallone 3 wins. Total progeny won 175 races. Hall of fame for Wilvetta?.

sonny · June 27

I dont think it matters when they run,,Crowds and turnover is something in the past.. I dont have the answer. I watch at home and punt. Last time I went to G.P would have been 12 months ago to catch up with fellow trotting people..before I went to the Inters..

warrenrobinson · June 27

sonny said:
I dont think it matters when they run,,Crowds and turnover is something in the past.. I dont have the answer. I watch at home and punt. Last time I went to G.P would have been 12 months ago to catch up with fellow trotting people..before I went to the Inters..

No Handicap No Turnover No Future.

Chopchop43 · June 28

Isnt the point based NR system with its barrier draw conditions a handicapping system? I mean highest rated horses drawing worse off seems like a handicap

Markovina · June 28

I love after my 10 mile morning walk each day sitting down and watching some of the replays - just about to watch Sat nights action

OF course i never watch Menangle - track is too big and as a result single file rubbish , and boring as bat-shiit

And the 2nd one im going to add to the list is GP and im not talking out of my pocket - had something on S Steels winAfter watching the other tracks replays - the 1st thing that stands out with GP - is 12 runners on that size track is crazy and far too many - i would cut it to 10 - 6/4 format - thus every horse could have a shot for the lead - horses drawn 9 and 10 could chance their arm at the start if they think the 3 and 4 are going to fly the gate - so follow them from the 2nd row

I dont think they can be too proud of their product at GP the last 6-8 weeks the advantage to the peg runners - in H Kings words its become dynamite - you might as well go the whole hog and chuck in a sprint lane - because the peg runners have got such an advantage - thats why it is terrible to watch

;;)

LightningJake · July 6

AbbysAce said:

LightningJake said:

AbbysAce said:

LightningJake said:
So you train trotters as thats the 1st race again on Monday at 12.03 ? :((

Hi AbbysAce,

The 1st race at Pinjarra today has some funny gaited Trotters!!!

AbbysAce · July 6

LightningJake said:

AbbysAce said:

LightningJake said:

AbbysAce said:

LightningJake said:
So you train trotters as thats the 1st race again on Monday at 12.03 ? :((
Hi AbbysAce,

The 1st race at Pinjarra today has some funny gaited Trotters!!!

Oh you train 2yos as well, you got alot of horses for a hobby trainer

G'day Punter!

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