so here we go again distance wise!!!

carey · December 2014

jesus this pisses me of.
that's the 3 race today over 1409!!!!
the fricken joint is full of people that don't give a fig.
they would probably get their marching orders elsewhere, but apparently anything goes over there.
might not look much, but races are won and lost by far smaller margins.
i am starting to think that they don't have any idea themselves where they should go, because they are generally positioned further back than both these positions for the 1400.
1600 is rooted too i have figured.

Darkhorse · December 2014

FFS use it to your advantage.

Nobody else is looking that close.

Make a dollar on their shortcomings.

carey · December 2014

it's a few metres, so close is relative.
plus when one has all the starting points then it's obvious it is all over the place.
so can you tell me which is which distance so that i can use it to my advantage???
if i can't figure what it is, then how do i use it?

it is simply wrong no matter what one may think of me complaining.
if they can't do the job then they should hire people that can.

Thoroly_Bread · December 2014

Pathetic really I think.

Pandora · December 2014

carey said:
it's a few metres, so close is relative.
plus when one has all the starting points then it's obvious it is all over the place.
so can you tell me which is which distance so that i can use it to my advantage???
if i can't figure what it is, then how do i use it?

it is simply wrong no matter what one may think of me complaining.
if they can't do the job then they should hire people that can.

But haven't you said previously that you could work it out to your advantage but was only highlighting to give them the 'irrates'

thefalcon · December 2014

how could carey work it to his advantage?
I backed the winner of the last at Esperance....stewards report and trainer...just got there, i'd have been right pissed off if it had been short....longer and the horse wins comfortably.
but there is no way it could have been to anyones advantage.....

Thoroly_Bread · December 2014

Thoroly_Bread said:
Pathetic really I think.

Just in case Carey this was not directed at you I was referring to the balls up with the barriers

carey · December 2014

Pandora said:

carey said:
it's a few metres, so close is relative.
plus when one has all the starting points then it's obvious it is all over the place.
so can you tell me which is which distance so that i can use it to my advantage???
if i can't figure what it is, then how do i use it?

it is simply wrong no matter what one may think of me complaining.
if they can't do the job then they should hire people that can.

But haven't you said previously that you could work it out to your advantage but was only highlighting to give them the 'irrates'

how can i possibly know the exact distance when they put it any which where??
i know when it's wrong, but how do i know it's right, even when it's in the correct(usual) position??

and even if i can know exactly what it is, then do you think that makes it ok for them to just whack them where ever they feel like
close enough is good enough?????.
mediocrity is something that abounds in wa racing, especially from rwwa integrity and racing departments, well maybe that is because they are the ones that i understand the best, but whatever.

if i have ever said to give them the 'irritates' then i will walk backwards across the nullabor!!
it's me getting irritated, with people that can't do what they are paid to do.
if they try to pick photos from margins that can't be spotted(even with crappily aligned systems!), then they are obligated to put the same detail into where they position the gates, or what they call the distance.

if they worked for me, they would have one warning, two at the most.....then goodbye, services no longer required.

carey · December 2014

Thoroly_Bread said:

Thoroly_Bread said:
Pathetic really I think.
Just in case Carey this was not directed at you I was referring to the balls up with the barriers

i did not think otherwise t_b

carey · December 2014

ok pandora, perhaps YOU can tell me which of these(if any) is really 1400 metres!!
they are ALL when the rail is true, so there should be no variation.
this is repeated over all distances.
if they can't get it right in the true position then what hope when the rail is out.

so i have been making templates, but that in itself is next to impossible, because at just about every non-metro track(and even them??) where the rail is true, they start races at differing position for the supposedly same distance, making it impossible to know which, if any are right.

now you may think i am a sook or whatever, but trying to be the best i can be, is why i know i AM, better at it than most, even when i am basically retired from it.

carey · December 2014

and i hope some owners or trainers see this, and say......fmd, my horse might have won that instead of just being nutted, if start was from correct position..

SHOVHOG · December 2014

They can't even get a race to run on time how do you expect them to measure properly ?

carey · December 2014

you have me stumped there shovhog!

CPL · December 2014

I would of thought that pace and position is more important then a few metres?

carey · December 2014

pace and position is everything, but if you can't see that something is wrong there, then maybe you are part of the reason that they don't give a stuff.

what would you say if YOUR horse was just caught on the line, and then you discovered the race was 5 metres too far??

i must admit that it really irks me when people try to dismiss the importance of things being correct.

IntoIt · December 2014

Why do they do it anyway? Is it to compensate for the condition of the track? Accuracy not important any more.......near enough is good enough.

Glad they dont apply the same principles to drug testing. Do as i say not as i do.

TheSwooper · December 2014

Morning Carey, I'm surprised that no one in the know has ever come on here and said that the distances are correct.

I went through my emails this morning and found the following from 2009: Seems like whatever marks they used have been eroded over time.

"In
February this year all the distances of race starts at Pinjarra Park were
surveyed and a schedule drawn up to reflect the variances with each rail
movement. "

and at the end of another email -

"Distances advertised now are spot on and correct."

Pandora · December 2014

carey said:

Pandora said:

carey said:
it's a few metres, so close is relative.
plus when one has all the starting points then it's obvious it is all over the place.
so can you tell me which is which distance so that i can use it to my advantage???
if i can't figure what it is, then how do i use it?

it is simply wrong no matter what one may think of me complaining.
if they can't do the job then they should hire people that can.

But haven't you said previously that you could work it out to your advantage but was only highlighting to give them the 'irrates'
how can i possibly know the exact distance when they put it any which where??
i know when it's wrong, but how do i know it's right, even when it's in the correct(usual) position??

and even if i can know exactly what it is, then do you think that makes it ok for them to just whack them where ever they feel like
close enough is good enough?????.
mediocrity is something that abounds in wa racing, especially from rwwa integrity and racing departments, well maybe that is because they are the ones that i understand the best, but whatever.

if i have ever said to give them the 'irritates' then i will walk backwards across the nullabor!!
it's me getting irritated, with people that can't do what they are paid to do.
if they try to pick photos from margins that can't be spotted(even with crappily aligned systems!), then they are obligated to put the same detail into where they position the gates, or what they call the distance.

if they worked for me, they would have one warning, two at the most.....then goodbye, services no longer required.

Get a grip, was a throw away line.

carey · December 2014

i have had that story too swoop, about the correct!
before something can be correct, they have to care that it is, and therein is the problem, they don't care.

at least i can be comforted in knowing that racing is fast going down the gurgler, and that they will be gone with it!

anybody that understands time and distances as far as racing/punting goes, would know that the wrongness will impact of the correct ones too.
so that your numbers for everything will be wrong, not just those where the distance was incorrect, but on the correct ones as well.

carey · December 2014

Into It said:
Why do they do it anyway? Is it to compensate for the condition of the track? Accuracy not important any more.......near enough is good enough.

Glad they dont apply the same principles to drug testing. Do as i say not as i do.

it is nothing to do with track condition 'into it', well maybe to preserve pads, so you may be right there.

when the rail is moved then distances that involve turns will mean that the gates have to be moved forward to compensate for the larger arc, or the distance has to be increased if they don't move the gates.

but considering they don't even know the correct spot when the rail is true, then i guess it is asking too much of them to be clever enough to know what it is when the rail is out.
in victoria, they use a wheel and measure, to ensure it is correct(well they used to, dunno if still do), in wa, my guess is that they guess too.

and because integrity has no interest in the integrity of the product then this is what we get, and in many others areas too.
it ultimately is the steward in charge of the meeting whose fault it has to be.
maybe i need to see if the guy usually in charge of bunbury has the gig at pinjarra too.

mailman505 · December 2014

Carey this subject was brought up yesterday on rsn 2nd station that covers syd and melb vince clocks all the horses and checks the distances for victora racing.He found a error at a country track with in 3 hours they fixed it and thanked him for his service.So different to this place who treat punters like they do not matter.My advice bet were its more professional on every level.

brady · December 2014

Prob depends on how many Sherbets the tractor driver of the Barrriers
Has had ?

carey · December 2014

mailman505 said:
Carey this subject was brought up yesterday on rsn 2nd station that covers syd and melb vince clocks all the horses and checks the distances for victora racing.He found a error at a country track with in 3 hours they fixed it and thanked him for his service.So different to this place who treat punters like they do not matter.My advice bet were its more professional on every level.

do you know which track it was mailman?
i am surprised that it was wrong to begin with.

but yes, you are correct, punters count for less than nothing where integrity is concerned in wa.
they don't even register on the radar.

and brady it may have been the driver of the tractor that puts it where it went, but surely the integrity should have to sign off that it is the correct position.
certainly that is what i got told in the long ago.

SPUDLEY · December 2014

Carey ,maybe they used to have someone who knew what to do and retired and the knowledge has not been past on and assuming the stewards currently in charge have no idea surely there must be some sort of technical data available somewhere so that the stewards can do a bit of study and get this proven fault fixed or do they just add the pre-fix " around " to every distance advertised.

Legless · December 2014

:-? Surely it can't be that hard :-??

*-:) Each time over the next couple of weeks when the ground staff move the rail - grab a surveyors wheel ( calibrated and certified ofc ) and measure the distances from the winning post.

Then record the GPS location of each starting point for each distance with the rail at its various positions :-B
Then the starter on the day knows exactly where to place the gates depending on rail position.

HINT - there are apps for phones these days days that accurately display GPS but I'm sure a stand alone GPS device would be within budget constraints

carey · December 2014

SPUDLEY said:
Carey ,maybe they used to have someone who knew what to do and retired and the knowledge has not been past on and assuming the stewards currently in charge have no idea surely there must be some sort of technical data available somewhere so that the stewards can do a bit of study and get this proven fault fixed or do they just add the pre-fix " around " to every distance advertised.

don't think they did spudley, or i would have had no cause to complain in the past when john zucal was in charge.
it took me quite a few emails telling him each time i realised it was wrong, but finally things got better.
he also told me that they had all the tracks surveyed, although i don't know how.
and the procedure he had ordered to be followed(if it actually happened i have no idea)
i still have his emails on a hard drive from a busted computer somewhere, which i must try to recover one day

pretty sure they have been all over the shop for the last few years, but only recently have i decided to check them again.
as i was not betting, then it did not matter much to me, but now i am having a small bet now and again, i am looking, even if not that hard.

and what i am finding horrifies me, because i know it means my numbers leave a lot to be desired as they are getting calculated on crap distance data.

all they really need is a measuring wheel, and it becomes simple, and they may get some much needed exercise too!!
actually i quite like what legless says above, but there is already supposed to be markers in place.

the 'about' distance in australia has gone the way of the dodo as it should have
it's just that in wa, they lie about it, as per the changes on cris with bunbury, where they just changed them according to where the rail was positioned.
but without taking any account of where the gates were positioned, thus stuffing it up even more, than it already was.

it reminds of several other instances where they have changed things in relation to posts i have made on here as regards ratings.
the purpose of which is to save face rather than to make it better.
face is apparently all they care about.

Rodent · December 2014

I use GPS for golf and they say accuracy is +/- 3m. You don't need fancy equipment, just pegs in the ground with say 1200m/6m for 1200m start with rail out 6m etc. It's not rocket science.

DamienWyer · December 2014

Well no, it is Mathematics.

Racing came from a time when there wasn't even blackboards in schools. When racetracks were built, and most have been standing for decades, the accent was not on integrity and accuracy, rather that all competitors were afforded an equal start and compete in a safe manner.

Not much has changed. Dinosaurs roam the planet, most of them enforce their opinions on how things should be run in the sport. That's why smart little critters find ways of defeating them in battle. Dinosaurs talk about winning the war but acknowledge that they start from a position of chasing from behind. In other words the sport is not proactive. It is reactive. Bad headlines motivate it.

RWWA will address this issue, they always do. Someone's ass will be in a sling over this thread, and RWWA will lean on The Diva to shut the discussion down, as it is not in the best interest of the sport's integrity to hang the dirty washing in public.

That's the WA way of doing things.

carey · April 2015

and it starts again.

i could see when this meeting first appeared on cris, that they had 1100, 1200 & 1410 races on the card.
rail 3m possy.
think to self......oh come on stephen, they could not possibly be this stupid, they are going to move the gates forward for the 1200 and 1100 metre races.

but alas the 1200 metre race starts from the normal possy(well actually back a little if anything), and they call it 1200 instead of 1208.

back to the future

TheDiva · April 2015

RWWA has never made me pull down a thread.

Its usually the comments and people getting out of hand that get threads shut down.

it is what it is... and if the distances are not right, they are not right.

carey · April 2015

they have owned up on twitter.
but they should be proactive not reactive.
if i had said nothing then it would have stayed wrong.

what i find amazing is that we have been through this so many times before.
way back years before mr zucal left, and still they can't get it right.
just how hard is it?

the horse that won the first race was not in front after 1200m(the advertised distance)

G'day Punter!

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so here we go again distance wise!!!

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