Dennis Couper

LooksLikeTrouble · May 2021

I read in this morning's paper that RWWA is having an inquiry whether to disqualify Shivers Of Joy after winning at Carnarvon on the 22nd of May because it was not handicapped correctly by the handicapper. It won well and I don't think the 1.5 kgs would have made any difference to the result. It wasn't Coupers fault, so if RWWA is going to punish anyone punish the handicapper who failed to do his job correctly.

Rodent · May 2021

I had a horse racing at Randwick in the 1990's. He was a battler whose best win was a midweek at Canterbury and his other 4 wins were at provincial and country class. He was in on the limit in a Saturday 2mw race at Randwick. I rang the handicapper as I was baffled how another horse with a great record could get in with 53kg, just 1kg over the limit. It had won 8 races from 24 starts including 2 at Randwick, and a 60k Kembla Cup. It had run 3 2nds including runner up in a 60k Country Cup at Randwick. 2 starts earlier it had run 4th in a Welter at Randwick. It made no sense.

Anyway, the handicapper said to me that a clerical error had occurred and the horse had got in 4kg light. He said there was nothing they could do because acceptances were out. I thought it was bs but what can you do?

It started 2-1 favourite and won by 4L in record time. It went on to win a Group 3 Summer Cup.

My battler ended up winning a Saturday restricted race at Doomben, the pinnacle of his career

:))

Ridiculous if Shivers Of Joy is DQ'd. He carried the weight listed. Everybody raced knowing the weights. End of story. Play on. Only person that should be negatively impacted is the handicapper.

LooksLikeTrouble · May 2021

If Dennis Couper had done anything wrong he’d pay the price but he hasn’t so RWWA should cop what has happened and not let it happen again

tony · June 2021

Apparently the stewards have decided to disqualify Shivers of Joy but the connections will keep the first place prize money. (From Jay Rooney on twitter)

LooksLikeTrouble · June 2021

FFS these people actually get paid . So they are going to forget about the handicappers stuff up, let the connections keep their stakemoney from a race where they have now been disqualified and then pay the horses who are now the winner and placegetters their stakemoney. Absolute joke. I give up. Bloody disgraceful!

meatpie · June 2021

LooksLikeTrouble said:
FFS these people actually get paid . So they are going to forget about the handicappers stuff up, let the connections keep their stakemoney from a race where they have now been disqualified and then pay the horses who are now the winner and placegetters their stakemoney. Absolute joke. I give up. Bloody disgraceful!

what other decision would be a fairer outcome for Couper. it wasn't his error so he shouldn't be penalised him.

Fair to others as well, I think

we don't know what ramifications from within have occurred yet

the guy that handicapped is young and one of the most amiable within the office. pretty sure it be a life long lesson for him

LooksLikeTrouble · June 2021

RWWA should have said nothing . But they did ? Probably no one would have known any different .that’s how smart they are

meatpie · June 2021

LooksLikeTrouble said:
RWWA should have said nothing . But they did ? Probably no one would have known any different .that’s how smart they are

seriously!

and we don't know who actually found the error, I don't think we know

Rodent · June 2021

Why should it be DQ'd? It won by 3.5L. It should only be DQ'd if it carried less than the allotted weight. It carried the allotted weight. Maybe I can use it as a precedent to get some more prizemoney from the 90's?

LooksLikeTrouble · June 2021

You could try Rodent. But they’d probably say they were right again and everyone else was wrong like always

spinking · June 2021

Maybe a good result. Owners get to keep the prizemoney, horse being disqualafied does not get any ratings points for the win

Rodent · June 2021

spinking said:
Maybe a good result. Owners get to keep the prizemoney, horse being disqualafied does not get any ratings points for the win

Imagine owning the 2nd horse. You may have done your money on the punt and your already slow horse could cop 3 points for not winning. At least you'll get your share of the paltry 1st prizemoney though.

Imagine if it happened in a feature race? What if the horse won by 10 lengths but was handicapped incorrectly and got in 0.5kg light? What if it were a G1 and a stallion prospect?

Flanders · June 2021

Rodent said:

spinking said:
Maybe a good result. Owners get to keep the prizemoney, horse being disqualafied does not get any ratings points for the win
Imagine owning the 2nd horse. You may have done your money on the punt and your already slow horse could cop 3 points for not winning. At least you'll get your share of the paltry 1st prizemoney though.
Imagine if it happened in a feature race? What if the horse won by 10 lengths but was handicapped incorrectly and got in 0.5kg light? What if it were a G1 and a stallion prospect?

If you were doing the form for that race @Rodent- would you have noticed the error? Could've been a nice little bonus for the punt

LooksLikeTrouble · June 2021

A few years ago we had a horse we won 3 with. We sold him to a friend who took him back to Carnarvon where he had a few starts then was nominated for a Class 2 which he thought was his class and he ran 5th. His next start was also in a class 2 and he won. RWWA then realised he was a class 3 horse and was then disqualified from both of the class 2 races losing all stakemoney. Nothing in stewards report and nothing ever said. Another case being swept under the carpet. In another case last year I went to Northam with a mate and strapped his horse which won the last race. No officials came after the race regarding swabbing so I hosed and scraped the horse and gave her a drink. After getting the colours and letting her cool down we loaded up and left. 10 minutes down the road my mate gets a call from stewards “we want to swab your horse” so bring it back which we did. Their excuse as to why the horse was not swabbed straight after the race was that the swab attendant thought we had changed strappers and got confused. I led the horse in and out so there was no change. Again, no mention in stewards report.

Rodent · June 2021

Flanders said:

Rodent said:

spinking said:
Maybe a good result. Owners get to keep the prizemoney, horse being disqualafied does not get any ratings points for the win
Imagine owning the 2nd horse. You may have done your money on the punt and your already slow horse could cop 3 points for not winning. At least you'll get your share of the paltry 1st prizemoney though.
Imagine if it happened in a feature race? What if the horse won by 10 lengths but was handicapped incorrectly and got in 0.5kg light? What if it were a G1 and a stallion prospect?

If you were doing the form for that race @Rodent- would you have noticed the error? Could've been a nice little bonus for the punt

Horse would just rate 1.5kg higher than if correctly weighted. I didn't do the race so no idea how much impact that had on the market.

Rodent · June 2021

Shivers Of Joy is in today at Carnarvon. Stewards reported 2 days ago that SOJ has been disqualified yet CRIS hasn't been updated.

JUNE 1, 2021

THOROUGHBRED

Racing and Wagering Western Australia’s (RWWA) Stewards today conducted an inquiry into the weight allocated to SHIVERS OF JOY in Race 3, Leon Bakers Jewellers Handicap (1400m), at Carnarvon on Saturday, 22 May 2021.

Evidence was taken from RWWA Chief Handicapper and Programmer, Mr Vinny Meens and the owner and trainer of SHIVERS OF JOY, Mr Denis Couper. Mr Meens advised that SHIVERS OF JOY should have been allocated 56.5kg, however was incorrectly weighted at 55kg.

Acting under the provisions of ARR 220 (1) (e), which reads:

A protest on the following grounds can be made up to 30 days after the conclusion of the race to which the protest relates:
(e) the weight carried by a horse was incorrect.

Stewards determined to disqualify SHIVERS OF JOY from the above race with the placings being amended accordingly.

Rodent · June 2021

Rodent · June 2021

You don't have to be a legal expert to argue that Shivers Of Joy should not be subject to DQ under the rule stipulating "carried incorrect weight". I would argue that carrying incorrect weight is not carrying the allotted official handicapped and published weight. The Stewards on the day declared "correct weight".

Given the subjective nature of handicapping and how puzzling so many handicapping decisions are, it is patently unfair to DQ a horse in these circumstances. It's not like a 100 rater got in on the limit in a 72+. Clearly none of Couper's fellow competitors had a problem with it from when weights were released. They had days to complain (just as I complained to NSW handicappers to no avail all those years ago).

Surely the rule needs to change from "correct weight" to "handicapped weight". At least then, it would save stewards from making the wrong decision.

A protest on the following grounds can be made up to 30 days after the conclusion of the race to which the protest relates:
(e) the weight carried by a horse was incorrect.

Ridersonthestorm33 · June 2021

^^ Too right.

Has an unfortunate connotation too especially in this case, the word “disqualified”. Not the connections fault one iota.

H-BOMBER · June 2021

Too right @rodent

It's published today that SoJ will carry 55.5 kg with a c51 rating. In its form of raced as a c47 last start. Given it "didn't race" last start, shouldn't it still be a c47. It seems it's been penalised 4 points still?

carey · June 2021

the 47 was the error i would think, it was a 51 rater

all it does is show that there are no checks and balances, or it would not have happened in the first place.

mistakes happen, but there should be things in place to make sure they are rectified before and not after.

G'day Punter!

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