Training costs ?

IronMike · November 2014

Hi All

After a absence in race horse ownership of 10 yrs Im
Looking to geg back into a few now my kids are thru private school an Im winding up my buisness an career to enjoy life an have a healthy super to use

I'm out of touch with the costs to be truthful now looking for a guide of owners here Currently

Could someone who Currently owns or trains tell me the in training costs for both a city an country based horse in WA prefer inclusive of training vet noms etc

Realise things can vary depending on soundness of the horse been there done that

I was talking to a client of Durrante"s he tells me that the training charge is 65 per day plus GST vet noms transport on top Id this near the mark in s top city stable ? Seems high for WA ?

Also anyone who hss horses in a top ES stable such as a moody freedman or waterhouse could you post the ave charges please

I was told to budget 40 k a year in s top class stable per horse for 100 per cent Im looking at 10-20 per cent shares

I'm looking only to part share Tho as Id rather have 3-5 shares in 3-5 horses than just one

I'm Thinking if the costs are not much more or 20 per cent higher Id rather deal with a ES syndicate but if miss out seeing them live mostly albeit I do travel east on a regular basis

Also is there a reputable syndication firm here in WA with a track record of success an or service good communication I could contact ?

I have spoken with Denise Martyn at star thoroughbreds in Sydney an teed up a meet in the new year to
Look at a few options visit the waterhouse open day on a Sunday for owners

Her horses I think are mainly trained by Gai not sure she did tell me some go to bush trainers who aren't much good

Has anyone here been in a star syndicate with Denise ?

I also spoke to OTI but it's pretty exy albeit the quality of horse they buy is pretty good apparently they told me Francesca Cumani is there buyer In Europe

I am not so worried about the up front cost of the horse just the ongoing costs an the value of racing in the ES V WA

TIA

Iron Mike

H-BOMBER · November 2014

65 a day is probabably standard for an outer perth trainer. I have currently and previously had horses with Adam and IMO its a no brainer, getting the best in WA and getting results. If you get a city trainer you'll pay 85 plus in my experience.

RIO · November 2014

from personal experience...country trained horse 20-25k/year, city based one 35k/year..that is all inclusive of spelling/training/vets/fees/etc

Daily training fees country 55-65.............city 65-90 all plus vet/trial fees/floating/ and everything else you can think of..

sharing 50% amongst 4 or 5 horses is a good way to go theses days, gives you a good chance to try to get a city starter. if you real lucky 2!!!!

IronMike · November 2014

Insurance seems high in OTI an star Thorobreds to im picking there's an earn there for them

Thanks gents great info on trainers

I'm
Looking at Durrante Simon
Miller Or Michael Grant

Problem is existing shares are for sale but the reasons for exiting a syndicate are always Dubious in my view

You don't get out of syndicates if you think the horse has ability

Having said that after winning s Meeka cup an a few races I had a dispute with the trainer who was ripping us off big time . so I told her to jam the horse up her Kyhber pass we bred it relinquished our shares for nothing

Yep you guessed it next year won the broome cup lol

Dispute was full training bills been sent , when I found out the horse was in the paddock an she was on holidays !!!

At the time she was an official at PR it was a disgrace horrible Cretan

DamienWyer · November 2014

Not all training costs are so clear cut. Several are prepared to work at a set rate per month, every month, with a top up bonus on every cheque earned.

I see the bills from two horses with Chris Waller. Please be seated when opening.

IronMike · November 2014

Damien Wyer said:
Not all training costs are so clear cut. Several are prepared to work at a set rate per month, every month, with a top up bonus on every cheque earned.

I see the bills from two horses with Chris Waller. Please be seated when opening.

That's what I'm trying to find out damo
What does a waller charge on ave ?

Nevershowsurprise · November 2014

You had a dispute with someone?? Don't believe it!

$65 per day is not expensive for Perth, it's bloody good value if you are using Adam as an example.

IronMike · November 2014

Star Thorobreds I think Denise said were moving a lot of nags to waller to but Gai is keeping a lot think it's mainly new ones to Waller not sure ?

Existing shares come on the market mostly trained by Gai

Sounds like a pro set up could be wrong hence asking

@nevershowsurprise Do you of have you ever owned horses had a winner ?

65 per day may be ok I don't know in 2002-2004 I was paying 30 to
45 a day

The trainer started at 30 as soon as the horse won a race her first winner she jacked the fees up 50 per cent lol

Talk about a head swell

Left. A Very bad taste in out mouths hence the long break to

IronMike · November 2014

This is what Denise said about costs with waller

inclusive approximate ongoing weekly costs to maintain a 10% interest in a horse trained by Chris Waller at his Rosehill, NSW stables are as below:
$64 (inc GST) per week at 2 years
$82 (inc GST) per week at 3 years

so from what gather it's not that far off double to have a horse trained by Waller v a city based perth trainer ???

Then again we are running for peanuts here compared to over there ???

paraletic · November 2014

Agree $65 per day is great value when the trainer gets results.

As for extra top up bonuses etc, the standard 10% cut I believe is a decent earn.

Anyone know much about the 50/50 stake split with no monthly bills that some trainers have used? I know its sort of common in greyhounds and have heard some horse trainers have done so in the past. If its no good the trainer will get rid of it quick smart and which owner wants to keep a slow one anyway?

Nevershowsurprise · November 2014

I'm a big fan of the 50/50's para.

It has to be the right type of horse and you have to be prepared for plan B if they're not performing.

PieMan · November 2014

It's not a real problem, as you are winning, but you pay about $70 a day, not including transport, vet bills etc. then lose 10% to the trainer, then 5% to the jock, then they both want about another 5% each in slings.

Sometimes, I was wondering if it was all worth it. I've only owned one horse that won a few hundred thousands, and I'm telling you now, after the purchase price, and percentages to the trainer, jock and staff, you weren't that far in front. I know it's a first world problem, but only own a horse if you want the feeling, not to make money.

LuckyLongshots · November 2014

IronMike said:
That's what I'm trying to find out damo
What does a waller charge on ave ?

Gai Waterhouse - approx $125+GST per day

IronMike · November 2014

Nevershowsurprise said:
I'm a big fan of the 50/50's para.

It has to be the right type of horse and you have to be prepared for plan B if they're not performing.

Which trainers here do 50-50 il give them a call sounds interesting

Didn't know such a thing existed here in WA ?

LuckyLongshots · November 2014

Only know of greyhound trainers that do 50/50!

Reckon some horse trainers would do really well on a 50/50 deal, and others would be out of the game quicker than you could say hello!

IntoIt · November 2014

Ive seen figures of $7k city trainers and $5k others. Reading it quickly i thought it must be annual figures but then realised no..........that would be wrong!

Is that why you have to sit down Damien

;)

Tivers · November 2014

IronMike said:
Star Thorobreds I think Denise said were moving a lot of nags to waller to but Gai is keeping a lot think it's mainly new ones to Waller not sure ?

Existing shares come on the market mostly trained by Gai

Sounds like a pro set up could be wrong hence asking

@nevershowsurprise Do you of have you ever owned horses had a winner ?

65 per day may be ok I don't know in 2002-2004 I was paying 30 to
45 a day

The trainer started at 30 as soon as the horse won a race her first winner she jacked the fees up 50 per cent lol

Talk about a head swell

Left. A Very bad taste in out mouths hence the long break to

Can't feed a horse for $30 - $45 a day.

Well, you can............but it won't win a maiden at Collie.

IronMike · November 2014

@Tivers as the post that was 2003 I can only imagine the costs now 10 yrs down the track

You know more than most here what's an accurate cost on training feed vet noms transport insurance on a sat class horse here in a good stable

So far I've heard 65-85 a day here

125 plus GST for waterhouse

Would WAROA or the trainers association be worth a call ?

I'm taking it there are too many variables ?

Once I know the accurate costs to train I can work on the shares or buy at MM an syndicate it if I can

I always thought it was 10 per cent trainer 5 per cent jock an only sling on decent stakes

Is it now Ten plus ten plus 5 for the strappers stable staff as I read they do in the east same here ?

paraletic · November 2014

just buy into someone elses syndicate. Saves you a lot of headache. You get the bill, pay it, and leave the rest of it up to the trainer.

DamienWyer · November 2014

Whatever Chris Waller wants to charge is the correct fee. He is the best Trainer in Australia, and easily by streets, the best communicator. His team deliver. I have nothing but praise for his organisation and have never once felt in any way that whether in person or via email, that my questions were anything other than warmly received. My client has two horses with Chris, one that Chris sourced in NZ and the second being a filly I purchased in Adelaide earlier this year.

I couldn't recommend him highly enough if you have a serious horse.

Tivers · November 2014

Yes, my comment was an exaggeration - but pointing out the rise in feed costs alone in ten years.

$65 - $85 per day would be a fair assessment of charges in WA.

Some hobby / backyard type trainers may charge a bit less at times.

Have heard of a few Ascot ones up in the 90's, but I can't blame them - costs to operate there are out of control. Cost of **** removal alone WAS in the region of $10 per day three years ago.

paraletic · November 2014

I had 2 horses in Melbourne (Caulfield), one moderately performed, the other was just shite. Anyway the trainer would be nowhere near top end as a trainer goes. Some of the bills I got would make you want to gargle a tin of Drano if you got them. Never again!!!

TheDiva · November 2014

its about $3000 a month in Perth to train a horse. Obviously some trainers are more, some are less. The more problems and issues your horse has, the more it will cost (Treatments / vets etc).

Work on $3000 a month.

IronMike · November 2014

Thanks to all above Im much more enlightened now

@The Diva I was thinking 3 k to either 10-20 per cent

That's in town that guy who was selling the share Told me 300 to for ten per cent

I thought for that particular trainer it was high an he wouldn't budge on price it was listed Ono here still think that may be a lot of fun like the staying type it was just price not been Ono as advertised an class of trainer

I agree Damo it's like lawyers or accountants they charge heaps but you get a top end one who knows his shit they are worth every single cent

That's why I liked that star Thorobreds set up very pro run an the Comms to even Minnow 5-10 per cent holders is excellent

After all this I might approach Adan Durrante an see if I can either get in on a horse racing my preference or a mm horse he may be buying

Thanks again all appreciate your time

Forelock · November 2014

Alls I know is I don't tolerate slow ones anymore, if they dont show ability I move them on or its just dead money.

SHOVHOG · November 2014

That's the only way forelock. That's why so many end up shot and buried ... Too expensive to keep them

The_Bull · November 2014

It's a hard one. Gai and Waller may be charging double what Durrant does, but with recent prize $$$ increases in Sydney, your horse is racing for double the prizemoney. $85k minimum on a Saturday. I would think anyone in WA who isn't charging at least 60-65 / day isn't giving the horse what it needs. I know at that rate we make absolutely nothing off training fees. As for extras, they all cost money, and if your horse needs them, it needs them. Christ, even Gastrozol is around 30 / week.

IronMike · November 2014

@The_Bull

Excellent summation thanks an my dilemma in one get shares in 1-2 horses in the east or 3-4 here

Dead right double fees but much greater chance of return even in NSW country the stakes are better

With the advent of sky sky 2 TVN we can watch races anywhere an enjoy it live

I know that does not give the full thrill of been there

In fact only times I didn't watch my horse run live he won Id go he crabbed it

I'm going to see if I can make contact tomorrow with a couple of trainers mentioned an see what they are doing for mm next yr

Or just pay damo to select a few try n buy a ok one an spread the shares

Dale · November 2014

SHOVHOG said:
That's the only way forelock. That's why so many end up shot and buried ... Too expensive to keep them

i am sure you mean, re homed to equine families to pursue a 20 year career as a pampered show pony.

SHOVHOG · November 2014

That's exactly what I mean dale

DamienWyer · November 2014

IronMike said:
@The_Bull

Excellent summation thanks an my dilemma in one get shares in 1-2 horses in the east or 3-4 here

Dead right double fees but much greater chance of return even in NSW country the stakes are better

With the advent of sky sky 2 TVN we can watch races anywhere an enjoy it live

I know that does not give the full thrill of been there

In fact only times I didn't watch my horse run live he won Id go he crabbed it

I'm going to see if I can make contact tomorrow with a couple of trainers mentioned an see what they are doing for mm next yr

Or just pay damo to select a few try n buy a ok one an spread the shares

Mike at this stage I have two new Trainer clients that have asked for a shortlist and a selection process for February. Usually I am approached by at least one or two at the sales, who either have bought one themselves or are looking, but also are looking for new stable clients to come in with others. Whilst I want to make it clear that I am not putting together syndicates, if you approach a local Trainer he should be able to accommodate someone who just wants a piece of a horse.

G'day Punter!

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